On digging deep and hitting the bottom you didn't know was there

Black women especially have always known how to dig deep and find a little more energy, time, or strength. But increasingly we're digging deep and hitting the floor.

Today, educator Dr. Asia Lyons released an interview we recorded back in March for her Exit Interview Podcast. I had no idea how much I needed to hear my own words reflected back to me like a mirror — a redirecting compass.

Listening to our conversation was such a balm as I’ve been wrestling with the message and meaning of The Rest Revolution and my overall work. If you’ve written a book, you know that writing is just the beginning.

The energy required to continuously share your message in the weeks and months following your book’s release will test your mettle; you’re telling the world the work has merit and waiting for them to stop scrolling, look back at you, and nod in agreement.

You don’t always get the external validation (a core burnout trigger for high achievers!) you feel you need to keep beating your drum, but there are certainly moments that remind you why you decided to share what you shared in the first place.

For me, this interview was one of those moments.

I’m embedding the full conversation and sharing a few of my favorite snippets below in the text. I hope it moves you.

Be sure to subscribe to Exit Interview with Dr. Lyons to hear more conversations like these.

On The Journey to The Rest Revolution

I think this conversation has been brewing for a long, long time. It first started personally for me about midway through the first year of the pandemic and really picked up in 2021 after I had my daughter. I was looking for ways to front-burner my joy, which I talk about in The Rest Revolution. That means getting back to the things that uniquely energize you—but they typically aren't things that make money or are seen as productive or useful to society.

We live in a world where every single thing is supposed to generate money or productivity. And if you're not using your time on that, then what are you doing? What I was missing was my own personal source of fuel, which is writing and sharing my words and my voice.

I was working with my coaching clients, and that was going great. But I had a desire to get back into the journalism work that I started my career in. I remember when Simone Biles stepped away from those 2020 Olympics—it came out later that she had the twisties and didn’t feel like she could move forward safely. She said she was tired.

I remember my collective group of Black women just kind of saying, “Wait, what? We can do that? We didn’t know we could say we were tired and not go on.” When she did that, online it was like this chorus of other Black women saying, “Oh wow. We can do this.”

I wrote an article about that, and it was published in The Washington Post. It resonated so deeply. I did hours of reporting with high-achieving Black women, and the article was only 900 words. I thought, “There’s more to this story.” That was kind of the low-key genesis of the book.

But the conversation on burnout had been brewing. It does not stop because I think we’re just at this inflection point in society where we’re starting to realize how much everyone is carrying—but the container we’re trying to operate in is so flawed that it makes sustainable operations impossible.

On Sustainability And Hitting the Collective Wall We Didn’t Know Was There

When it comes to burnout, people are realizing that the container is not sustainable: we can’t just push ourselves a little bit harder to make it all work. That’s something Black women have historically done. We’ve always known how to tap into that extra—eek out a little more energy, a little more time, a little more strength.

And that’s what the genesis of the book was for me. That was my personal experience.

As a high achiever, I’ve always been able to find a little more in the tank. I’ve always known, “Oh, if I have to, I can burn the midnight oil. Pull an all-nighter. Forego self-care to get it done.” But that all changed during the pandemic. I wasn’t aware of my limit before that, but I hit it.

Hard.

I think that’s what’s happening metaphorically—we’re all trying to make it all work in this container that doesn’t make sense.

Yes, some people can lean on their skills, networks, or savings. But more and more, we’re getting to the point where none of that is going to work long-term. We’re collectively hitting a wall we didn’t know was there. And the setup of our society, especially how it’s shifted in the first few months of this year, is making that clearer.

On Coaching High Achievers Who Tend Towards Burnout

When you’re building a business or consulting practice, it’s good to ask: Who is your audience? Who do you have the most skill to help? For me, high achievers always emerged. People who pull a little more out of their tank, who go the extra mile, who believe in excellence and their gifts. They don’t want to coast—they want to maximize this opportunity for themselves, their families, and for impact.

So when you attract people like that, and they’re working with me,I know they can work. So I’m giving them work to do to make them work because I want them to shine. I want the world to hear about them and know their name. All of that is a recipe for burnout, especially when you don’t know your limits yet. If you haven’t been in a situation where you’ve run out of road and seen—“Oh, I can’t work for two days without sleep or meals”—you don’t know yet.

I definitely can’t do it over and over and over again and still show up, be able to deliver my best, and feel okay. And so, I think the type of person I am and the type of leaders I attract, the burnout conversation just really becomes inevitable.

Because we've been groomed to overachieve, as one of my clients would say. We know how to boss up and get it done. But when you do that again and again and again, it takes a toll.

On Childhood Trauma and The Achievement-Seeking That Leads to Burnout

These last few years have been a revelation for me. I was listening to a podcast this morning with Dr. Gabor Maté. He talks about trauma and how it informs how you relate to the world. He was specifically talking about how you can experience trauma in childhood—where you aren't getting your needs met, perhaps there’s neglect or you are not seen by your caregivers—and then you make it your life's mission to be seen and to be valued.

That can manifest very often in overwork—because you overwork to make good grades, to show that you're a good and valuable person, and that you should be loved. To earn the love and care of those around you to the point where you think that's your personality. You think that's who you are. But that is literally your trauma response.

What?!

So when you say, “Will our excellence save us?” Half of us… are we even excellent for real? Yes, we have the capacity.

But is [our excellence] even the thing we would lean into if we didn’t feel like that was what we had to do to feel worthy and loved?